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I don't know. Can you see the slides? Yes,
yeah. Okay, so yeah, I'll be discussing

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the plans for le CB during the upgrade.
So, in the long shutdown, pass the long

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shutdown for period and what we want to do
with timing there. I'll just begin by

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saying a little bit about the upgrade to
have lacp. So it's going to happen in

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about 2030, a little bit later than the
CMS and Atlas upgrades. And we are going

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to have an increase in the luminosity with
respect to the upgrade one situation of

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about 7.5. And in the run five and six,
during this time, we expect to collect

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something between 300 and 350. In bursts
of data, it's going to be a very

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challenging environment. As many of you
already know. We're going to have an

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increased amount of pile up and a few
thousand charged particles that are

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actually going to be entering the detector
acceptance per bunch of crossing. This is

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going to give us you know, many troubles.
In terms of tracking, we'll have a lot

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more ghosts and mismatch of primary
vertices. And then of course, we can't

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forget about that we're going to have a
very harsh radiation environment, which is

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going to be driving a lot with
technologies that we actually need for

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timing. And so now this brings me that,
you know, in order to deal with the, the

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extreme pile up and this problem with the
tracking, we need many subsystems that

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have dedicated fast timing in them. And so
I've outlined here, which ones that I'm

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going to be discussing. So we have the
Veilleux, the rich detectors, the torch

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and the electromagnetic calorimeter. ico.
Now, a little bit about why we need timing

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for detector performance. It will help for
suppressing combinatorics and also

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enabling time dependence CP violations
also with reconstructing primary vertices

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and associating with the right to events,
this will be extremely important on the

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right hand side you can actually see if
the overlap of many primary vertices. So,

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on the x axis you can see the impact
parameter and on the Y Y axis, you can

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actually see how the timing can actually
disentangle many overlapping vertices and

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so, this can be quite important. And on
the bottom set of plots you can actually

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see a good example of why this will be
important for tracking as well. So, on the

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bottom you can actually see the ghost rate
efficiency and impact parameter resolution

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for the baler detector with the current
upgrade one geometry and you can see in

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the black what we expect for up to One and
then the read what we would expect an

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upgrade to without any changes from the
upgrade one geometry. And so you can

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actually see quite significant
deterioration of our detector once we go

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to upgrade to if we don't actually do
anything. And so timing is going to be

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really important to keep the performance
up to what we currently have. So now this

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brings me to the different detectors I
start with the bailer detector, which is a

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silicon pixel detector. We find that
already that just for the mismatch of

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primary vertices, we're going to need
something like 200 picoseconds timing

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resolution for this detector just to keep
the current mismatch rate at the current

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current performance of about 1%. He's also
going to be extremely important for

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tracking you know the hits are going to be
separated in this luminous region by

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around 170 picoseconds RMS which means
that We're going to need just timing

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resolutions with about 10s of Pico seconds
to distinguish these especially

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overlapping hits. We also need to get past
timing to really maintain adequate

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efficiency during this time. So on the
bottom right plot, you can see just a

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simple simulation. It's not with the full
LCD simulation. But nonetheless, it's very

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insightful to see how different amounts of
timing can actually improve your

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efficiency during this time.

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And again, like I said, radiation is going
to be very important for all these things.

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And so this is going to be something
that's going to be actually fighting our

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spatial and timing resolution, in a sense,
and we're going to have to consider this

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when discussing different technology
choices for the approver below. And I just

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want to say on the last point, that right
now I show different scenarios, no timing,

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hundred Pico seconds. 50 Pico seconds, you
can even go a little bit better when it

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seems from the latest simulations, you
about 50 Pico seconds per hit or about 20

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people seconds to track will seem optimal.
For the below that we have. We want to

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have an integrated sensor with a basic and
basic sensors in one. The basic will be

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based on the baler picks time picks
family. And for the actual sensors

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themselves, you know, we have many options
that we're considering there's not one

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single option that we've chosen. Some of
the leading candidate candidates include

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planar sensors, complainer's, l guides,
3d, or we can even consider things like a

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monolithic design such as sea monster.
Other factors as well. Like I said,

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there's not going to be one single
technology, maybe that's going to be used

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throughout the whole sensor because at the
moment, you know, there is no technology

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that that's actually going to get us to
the requirements that we need in terms of

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the small pixel size that we require fast
timing and also the radiation heart. Which

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is going to be upwards of one times 10 to
the 17th and EQ in the innermost layer.

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So, we might consider using different
technologies, depending on the radius away

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from being pipe. But this is not set in
stone yet. And you know, we have a little

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bit of time to think about this. But we
want to really keep all our options. Now

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for the rich detectors, the rich one rich
two detectors, these are drink off

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detectors. And the timing is going to be
really important there in order,

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especially to keep the occupancy levels as
current rate for the upgrade one, and you

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can kind of see in the upper left plot,
you have two overlapping ratings.

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spatially, you can actually disentangle
the two by just using timing. And it can

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also improve in pattern recognition and
reduction in background photons. And it

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seems that also with In terms of primary
vertices, you can separate them just with

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about one nanosecond per photon, which
gives us about a bit more than 100 Pico

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seconds per track resolution. And finally,
this one nanosecond is going to be enough

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to reject the other time photons, which
will require something like a three

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nanosecond gate, just to remove some of
the background. So in the bottom left

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plot, you can see for the rich one, and
the rich two different time stamps, and

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you can see the signal peaks there. And so
this is three nanoseconds is just for

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simulation that doesn't include things
like time walk or anything. And this

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background is going to be about a few
percent of which one and about 10% which.

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Now moving on to the torch detector, this
is also a drink off detector. It's

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primarily a time of flight detector for
particle ID. It's going to comprise a

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sensitive microchannel plate with a
multiplier tubes. It's aiming for Timing

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resolution of about 70 Pico seconds per
photon, which gives us around 15 Pico

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seconds per track. And the time is going
to really be important here because it's

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possibly going to be able to help us
suppress ghosts stemming from mismatch

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between further upstream detectors of the
veloz ut you can kind of see a schematic

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on the bottom right? This year, or also
there's some some decays that will happen

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outside of the beyla detector, which won't
have timestamps, and so this will actually

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be very important for times. And like I
said, it's mainly a time of flight

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detector. And so the timing will also
really help for identifying these really

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low momentum particles

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lower than about 10 gb.

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Recently, a large scale a torch
demonstrator has been built and tested at

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the at CERN at the peanut beamline insane
using a gv mix to beam mostly protons and

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pions. You can see on the right hand side
though, what the demonstrator looks like.

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And the tests have indicated already that
we are actually hitting the resolution

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that we want of about 70 picoseconds per
photon, which is what we would expect. So

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these results actually are quite promising
and it looks like that we're right on

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track for this. And now finally, I come to
the electromagnetic coil rameters are

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equal. And it's gonna be quite challenging
to simultaneously just, you know, optimize

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energy resolution, the radiation hardness
especially in the central layer. So on the

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bottom, left plot, you can actually see
the radiation dose expected for different

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distances away from the beam pipe along
that axis and you can see even we have

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something Over 200 mega reds in the
innermost parts. And so we're gonna have

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to deal with this radiation as well. And,
and we'll need fast timing also to

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suppress component torques when forming by
zero candidates and behind pads on the

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case. And it also allows us like our other
detectors to reject combinatorics. And and

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you can actually really see how this is
really deteriorating with the number of

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primary vertices. So like, right now you
can see on the bottom right plot, going

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from one to four primary vertices per
event, how much our signal degrades from

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this and you know, if you think we're
gonna have pileup of more than 40 and

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upgrade to then this is really going to
kill us. And so timing is really going to

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be necessary to to improve on this. And
here you can actually see See how the

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timing would be affecting the efficiency
and, and how we can actually improve on

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this. So I show you kind of on the left
plot, what you would get with no timing,

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something with 50 Pico seconds that
actually looks like we're going to need

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something even tighter just a few 10s of
Pico seconds already and this is going to

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be provided by silicon detectors. These
will either be embedded within the

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perimeter material or as a plane outside
of the the material itself. And really,

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this timing resolution is going to be
crucial to be you know, to really to

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really keep the efficiency where we need
it to be. Okay, so this brings me to a

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summary. You know, upgrade to is going to
be really challenging for late CB It's

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gonna be, you know, effective 10 times in
or close to 10 times increase luminosity

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compared to the upgrade one, we're going
to have increased pileup ghost rate,

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problems with primary vertices,
mismatching and reconstruction. And then

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the radiation dose in some parts of the
detector are going to be quite extreme as

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well. And it's clear from the physics
point of view that pass timing is going to

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be necessary and many subsystems are going
to carry fast timing. They load the rich

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detectors, the torch and the EPL. And on
the bottom, you can just kind of see a

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schedule, which of course is going to be a
little bit changed day because of the

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current situation. But you know, we're
still shooting around 2030 for this

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upgrade. Okay, thank you. I hope I was in
time.

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Okay, thank you very much.

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Any questions for Christopher?

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I see two hands. So Stephanie was first

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Go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Can you hear
me? Yes. Okay, this is different by the

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ankle. Yes. Just a question about slide
number seven, was wondering whether you

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since you concentrated on the on the V on
one side, and on the other side, you were

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thinking about getting some term
resolution, also on the upstream tracker.

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And on the dumpster in tracker two, I
think you called it the mighty tracker,

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because something of the order of 100
picoseconds seems to be rather achievable

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in the few years from now.

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So there have been some discussions on
this, but I mean, nothing is really been

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set in stone and it's

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at the moment, I would say, No, it's not
in the official plans for these. Thank

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you,

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Philip.

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Please Go ahead.

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You just need to unmute yourself.

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Click No.

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I didn't hear anything.

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Okay.

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Anything from sleep and

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Okay, that is unmuted. There. It's muted
again.

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Okay, maybe we move on, though. Yes, we
can hear you. Okay. So

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on slide number eight. I'm wondering about
the US in a symmetrical time time plots.

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Where does this come from and what are the
consequences? I couldn't

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tell you where they symmetry. You're
talking about the tail here on this

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Gaussian district. Yes, yes. Oh, yeah. I
apologize. I couldn't tell you about the

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tail.

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But the but the central Gaussian part it's
about Sunday.